Post by seantheyounger on Apr 28, 2009 11:25:48 GMT -5
To be honest, I really like both of the series, no matter what anyone says about how "the quality of the games have been dropping since they've became Squeenix" or whatever (personally, I think that they just did phenomenally in the nineties, and haven't been able to regain that spark since then, aside from Kingdom Hearts). Hell, the first two Playstation games I've ever played were Final Fantasies (Tactics and VIII. I actually bought a memory card before buying a Playstation so that I could save my game). Some amazing things came out of both series, and I'll gladly buy future games from both.
The biggest advantage that Suikoden has over Final Fantasy, though, is that it feels like a series. Most of the Final Fantasy games have elements that connect them to one another, such as the magic (though the mechanism for the magic's changed many times), moogles, airships, crystals, and so on and so forth; the problem is, there's no continuity. Every Final Fantasy game, spinoffs aside, are disconnected from one another. Hell, Dragon Quest has more connecting the games to one another than Final Fantasy does. That's one of the main things that drew me into Suikoden.
Let me tell you a story: when I first got my Playstation, I had rented Suikoden. Nearly beat it in a week; I had gotten all the way to the final dungeon (the castle of Gregminster, if I recall correctly), and just stopped at the beginning of the castle. I can't remember why I stopped, probably because I had to take Flik and Viktor with me, who were underlevelled and ill equipped. My opinion of the game was that it was okay, at best. I've shared my opinion with other people at other sites, and they've pretty much booed me about it. But anyways, I liked it well enough, but I had Final Fantasy VII to play, so there.
Then I spent a evening with David at his house, sometime around Christmas. I remember that we were watching a Muppets Christmas special, something with the Fraggles in it. While I was there, I ended flipping through either a magazine or a strategy guide that had Suikoden II in it. I was pretty interested in what I saw there, so, on impulse, I bought the game (had to do it over Ebay, since it was impossible to find elsewhere). I was pretty impressed with what I saw: the graphics were cleaner and brighter than they were in Suikoden, the game punted you straight into the exciting parts (I remember being a bit bored by Suikoden), without overwhelming you (I also remember having about five companions at the beginning, and wondering "Who the hell are these people?"). So, it got off on a good note with me.
Then, Flik and Viktor appeared.
I was like, "Holy crap, those guys are from the last game!". I was pretty surprised by their appearance, so I began to take note. In Suikoden, I didn't care much for Flik, but I absolutely loved Viktor, so seeing him there was a treat. Thus, I started playing more earnestly. While playing Suikoden II, all of the continuity nods drew me in: Humphrey and Futch searching for dragons after Black died in Suikoden, the Star Dragon Sword and Neclord's continuing fight, the Silverbergs, Jeane and Viki... those, more than everything endeared me to the game, even though I didn't particularly love or even complete the first game. It was almost like there were hidden secrets in the game, and only I was privy to them; it was an absolute blast. That, and the improved war system and the increased number of duels made me love the game. Plus, the story was remarkably simple and yet compelling: when it comes down to it, the whole story is about two countries who are just pissed off at each other; no silly thing like a grandiose end of the world scenario that... well, all of the Final Fantasies did.
Suikoden II is one of the few games I've ever replayed: the second time I resolved to get all 108 Stars of Destiny (it's a tough thing to give distinct personalities to well over a hundred protagonists, plus about half that of antagonists, but the Suikoden games, II and V in particular, do a good job on that end), as well as utilize the Muse/Matilda cheat to get Humphrey and Futch several hours (and about twenty levels) early AND have a decent chance to recruit Clive (you have to complete certain event flags under a time limit, and they don't tell you that there's a time limit).
I already discussed some of this with Dave, and he said that one thing he didn't like was that you never really see the results of your games in future games, that despite the shared world, you never really get to return to the places you've been. Aside from a few exceptions (you go back to Gregminster in Suikoden II, you go to an Island Nation city in Suikoden V, and the entirety of Suikoden Tactics is a prologue, side story, AND epilogue of Suikoden IV), this is true. However, the places aren't exactly what matter, it's the characters. While Suikoden was likely not thinking of Suikoden II at the time, Suikoden II clearly was thinking not only of Suikoden, but Suikoden III as well; you are introduced to major characters of the third game in the second, though you may not realize it at the time, and the actions that another character takes in the third game, while shocking, aren't a surprise when you consider their character in the first two games, despite them being an ally. Also, there was the visual novel game Suikogaiden I & II, where it follows the events of and following Suikoden II from the perspective of a character not even seen in the second game, where there's quite a bit of foreshadowing of the events of the third game. Unfortunately, this game never came out in America (sensible, as visual novels aren't popular across the sea).
And that leads us into Suikoden III. Timeline wise, Suikoden II takes place two or three years after Suikoden, a small hop into the future. On the other hand, Suikoden III takes place about fifteen years after Suikoden II, a whole 'nother generation afterwards. There's a lot less returning cast members from the previous games in this one (by my count, fourteen recurring characters, sixteen including characters from Suikogaiden, not all of them Stars in both games), but you also see characters with connections to characters from past games (most of them daughters of previous characters. Go figure), still preserving the continuity between games. The game itself isn't as great as Suikoden II was, but I still enjoyed it.
Suikoden IV is where it falters a bit. First off, it takes place a hundred or so years before Suikoden, making continuity a bit of a moot point (though they do mention the location of the game, the Island Nations, in Suikoden II, so there's that. Plus, despite the time difference, there's still four characters who appeared in previous games (being immortal or an accidental time traveller helps)). However, there's just not enough continuity to keep my attention grabbed. The main problem with it, though, is the gameplay and the story. To be honest, I've played it to just before the end of the game, and I can't remember what the whole war was even about (I remember something about pirates and a bald guy with a bird getting killed. Yeah). I'm told that Suikoden Tactics makes Suikoden IV make sense, but I lost my copy of the game.
Suikoden V is also a weird one, but in an interestingly good way. It takes place in a country never mentioned previously, far south of the locations of Suikoden, Suikoden II, and Suikoden III, about half a decade before Suikoden. However, it brings back continuity in the opposite way that Suikoden II did: there are things that they talk about in Suikoden II that you can follow because they happened in Suikoden; in Suikoden V, however, they show things that they talk about in Suikoden II. For instance, there's one character that everyone notices is always pursuing another character, trying to get information on some event that has happened; what's funny is that, if you've followed Suikogaiden, you know exactly what happened. Hell, in a way, the plot of entire game is part of the backstory of a single character in Suikoden II. Plus, despite it taking place before three of the other games, you still get more information and connection to the other games: the Island Nations of Suikoden IV are involved, you see the gunpowder assassins of the Howling Guild (seen in Suikoden and Suikoden II, as well as Suikogaiden), the Scarlet Empire of Suikoden have some shoutouts, you actually find something out about Jeane (it's not much, but hey)... There's still that connection to the other games that you can enjoy.
So, as I've said before, I really like both the Suikoden series and the Final Fantasy series. However, Suikoden, despite the lack of grand production values, high fantasy and magitech, or even end of the world grand finales, is my preferred series due to the connection between the games. It's not vital to play previous games to understand what's going on (I would recommend skipping Suikoden IV; they tried their best, but it's really not worth the effort to play, unless you want to see the best costume that Jeane's ever been in), but there's always the little secret that they share with you.
And, thus, ends my love letter to Suikoden.
The biggest advantage that Suikoden has over Final Fantasy, though, is that it feels like a series. Most of the Final Fantasy games have elements that connect them to one another, such as the magic (though the mechanism for the magic's changed many times), moogles, airships, crystals, and so on and so forth; the problem is, there's no continuity. Every Final Fantasy game, spinoffs aside, are disconnected from one another. Hell, Dragon Quest has more connecting the games to one another than Final Fantasy does. That's one of the main things that drew me into Suikoden.
Let me tell you a story: when I first got my Playstation, I had rented Suikoden. Nearly beat it in a week; I had gotten all the way to the final dungeon (the castle of Gregminster, if I recall correctly), and just stopped at the beginning of the castle. I can't remember why I stopped, probably because I had to take Flik and Viktor with me, who were underlevelled and ill equipped. My opinion of the game was that it was okay, at best. I've shared my opinion with other people at other sites, and they've pretty much booed me about it. But anyways, I liked it well enough, but I had Final Fantasy VII to play, so there.
Then I spent a evening with David at his house, sometime around Christmas. I remember that we were watching a Muppets Christmas special, something with the Fraggles in it. While I was there, I ended flipping through either a magazine or a strategy guide that had Suikoden II in it. I was pretty interested in what I saw there, so, on impulse, I bought the game (had to do it over Ebay, since it was impossible to find elsewhere). I was pretty impressed with what I saw: the graphics were cleaner and brighter than they were in Suikoden, the game punted you straight into the exciting parts (I remember being a bit bored by Suikoden), without overwhelming you (I also remember having about five companions at the beginning, and wondering "Who the hell are these people?"). So, it got off on a good note with me.
Then, Flik and Viktor appeared.
I was like, "Holy crap, those guys are from the last game!". I was pretty surprised by their appearance, so I began to take note. In Suikoden, I didn't care much for Flik, but I absolutely loved Viktor, so seeing him there was a treat. Thus, I started playing more earnestly. While playing Suikoden II, all of the continuity nods drew me in: Humphrey and Futch searching for dragons after Black died in Suikoden, the Star Dragon Sword and Neclord's continuing fight, the Silverbergs, Jeane and Viki... those, more than everything endeared me to the game, even though I didn't particularly love or even complete the first game. It was almost like there were hidden secrets in the game, and only I was privy to them; it was an absolute blast. That, and the improved war system and the increased number of duels made me love the game. Plus, the story was remarkably simple and yet compelling: when it comes down to it, the whole story is about two countries who are just pissed off at each other; no silly thing like a grandiose end of the world scenario that... well, all of the Final Fantasies did.
Suikoden II is one of the few games I've ever replayed: the second time I resolved to get all 108 Stars of Destiny (it's a tough thing to give distinct personalities to well over a hundred protagonists, plus about half that of antagonists, but the Suikoden games, II and V in particular, do a good job on that end), as well as utilize the Muse/Matilda cheat to get Humphrey and Futch several hours (and about twenty levels) early AND have a decent chance to recruit Clive (you have to complete certain event flags under a time limit, and they don't tell you that there's a time limit).
I already discussed some of this with Dave, and he said that one thing he didn't like was that you never really see the results of your games in future games, that despite the shared world, you never really get to return to the places you've been. Aside from a few exceptions (you go back to Gregminster in Suikoden II, you go to an Island Nation city in Suikoden V, and the entirety of Suikoden Tactics is a prologue, side story, AND epilogue of Suikoden IV), this is true. However, the places aren't exactly what matter, it's the characters. While Suikoden was likely not thinking of Suikoden II at the time, Suikoden II clearly was thinking not only of Suikoden, but Suikoden III as well; you are introduced to major characters of the third game in the second, though you may not realize it at the time, and the actions that another character takes in the third game, while shocking, aren't a surprise when you consider their character in the first two games, despite them being an ally. Also, there was the visual novel game Suikogaiden I & II, where it follows the events of and following Suikoden II from the perspective of a character not even seen in the second game, where there's quite a bit of foreshadowing of the events of the third game. Unfortunately, this game never came out in America (sensible, as visual novels aren't popular across the sea).
And that leads us into Suikoden III. Timeline wise, Suikoden II takes place two or three years after Suikoden, a small hop into the future. On the other hand, Suikoden III takes place about fifteen years after Suikoden II, a whole 'nother generation afterwards. There's a lot less returning cast members from the previous games in this one (by my count, fourteen recurring characters, sixteen including characters from Suikogaiden, not all of them Stars in both games), but you also see characters with connections to characters from past games (most of them daughters of previous characters. Go figure), still preserving the continuity between games. The game itself isn't as great as Suikoden II was, but I still enjoyed it.
Suikoden IV is where it falters a bit. First off, it takes place a hundred or so years before Suikoden, making continuity a bit of a moot point (though they do mention the location of the game, the Island Nations, in Suikoden II, so there's that. Plus, despite the time difference, there's still four characters who appeared in previous games (being immortal or an accidental time traveller helps)). However, there's just not enough continuity to keep my attention grabbed. The main problem with it, though, is the gameplay and the story. To be honest, I've played it to just before the end of the game, and I can't remember what the whole war was even about (I remember something about pirates and a bald guy with a bird getting killed. Yeah). I'm told that Suikoden Tactics makes Suikoden IV make sense, but I lost my copy of the game.
Suikoden V is also a weird one, but in an interestingly good way. It takes place in a country never mentioned previously, far south of the locations of Suikoden, Suikoden II, and Suikoden III, about half a decade before Suikoden. However, it brings back continuity in the opposite way that Suikoden II did: there are things that they talk about in Suikoden II that you can follow because they happened in Suikoden; in Suikoden V, however, they show things that they talk about in Suikoden II. For instance, there's one character that everyone notices is always pursuing another character, trying to get information on some event that has happened; what's funny is that, if you've followed Suikogaiden, you know exactly what happened. Hell, in a way, the plot of entire game is part of the backstory of a single character in Suikoden II. Plus, despite it taking place before three of the other games, you still get more information and connection to the other games: the Island Nations of Suikoden IV are involved, you see the gunpowder assassins of the Howling Guild (seen in Suikoden and Suikoden II, as well as Suikogaiden), the Scarlet Empire of Suikoden have some shoutouts, you actually find something out about Jeane (it's not much, but hey)... There's still that connection to the other games that you can enjoy.
So, as I've said before, I really like both the Suikoden series and the Final Fantasy series. However, Suikoden, despite the lack of grand production values, high fantasy and magitech, or even end of the world grand finales, is my preferred series due to the connection between the games. It's not vital to play previous games to understand what's going on (I would recommend skipping Suikoden IV; they tried their best, but it's really not worth the effort to play, unless you want to see the best costume that Jeane's ever been in), but there's always the little secret that they share with you.
And, thus, ends my love letter to Suikoden.